Moncurs Putting Iron
1:58 Wed Sep 8
Re: National Insurance increase
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Fortunes Hiding 1:55 Wed Sep 8
Beat me to it.
The WHOthanasia list would take quite a while to get through :-)
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Fifth Column
1:58 Wed Sep 8
Re: National Insurance increase
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Zico
That's a very eloquent post. I'm really sorry to read that and understand your pain - I had a similar thing with my dad for a year before he died... only without almost any of the positive bits at all. Though like you say, who makes the decision? His deterioration was instant one day and so wouldn't have had the capacity to say he wanted to end anything for himself. I'd find it very concerning having anyone except the patient themselves make that decision - there are so many scummy people in the world who would flick the switch on a relative for money or a quiet life. So with the possible exception of people who are mentally able to make the decision themselves like those who go to Dignitas I can't see a safe way of making euthenasia legal.
Block - "do not resuscitate" is very different to "do not take into hospital".
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Fortunes Hiding
1:55 Wed Sep 8
Re: National Insurance increase
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COYI
That describes a few people on WHO.
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Come On You Irons
1:44 Wed Sep 8
Re: National Insurance increase
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"The problem with euthanasia, at least in the context of his post, is that you want to kill people because you don't think they are of use any more."
Completely the wrong end of the stick. I advocate euthanasia for people who have completely "lost their marbles", the bar would be set high and I would only advocating injecting people who are vacant, empty shells without the ability to communicate or do even the basic things themselves like get out of bed. People who have ZERO quality of life and are alive physically but not mentally.
I'm pretty sure most of us would want to be terminated if we ever reach that state.
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Block
1:36 Wed Sep 8
Re: National Insurance increase
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People can insist on not being resuscitated, Grandad had it.
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zico
1:34 Wed Sep 8
Re: National Insurance increase
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MPI,
It's a really difficult one. Mum's sister had dementia for 10 years and the last two or three were lying in a bed looking at the ceiling. Sepsis took her in the end but even then the home and GP wanted her in hospital but she went before they got their way.
It's not a conversation anyone wants with a parent but I would stress to all that a concversation needs to be had with regard to a Power of Attorney, both Health & Welfare and Property. At least a person can place certain wishes on those forms, especially about treatment they may want/not want in the case that they lose capacity. It's tough enough to manage someones affairs with one let alone without one!
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Moncurs Putting Iron
1:33 Wed Sep 8
Re: National Insurance increase
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Hermit Road 1:28 Wed Sep 8
Re: National Insurance increase
For me personally, In an ideal world, the decision is made by the person concerned, not the family and logged in a living will.
Even then those levels would have to be assessed and measured by humans and could be manipulated by those who would benefit.
Whoever said humans are an inexact science was bang on.
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Hermit Road
1:28 Wed Sep 8
Re: National Insurance increase
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"The problem with euthanasia as I've said before is who makes that decision?"
The problem with euthanasia, at least in the context of his post, is that you want to kill people because you don't think they are of use any more.
It relies on a view of the value of human life tied to what you can produce or do.
Human beings aren't machines that can be decommissioned when an updated model is invented.
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Moncurs Putting Iron
1:27 Wed Sep 8
Re: National Insurance increase
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zico,
No one would blame you for wishing what you are wishing for, I hope it happens soon.
As you say the problem with Euthanasia is people.
At best Different, outlooks, opinions and principles are involved as to what quality of life is. and at worst it can be influenced by nefarious selfish gain.
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Block
1:24 Wed Sep 8
Re: National Insurance increase
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Moncurs Putting Iron 1:15 Wed Sep 8
That's not horrible, at all. The difference is you spent pretty much every single day with the hound, which you didn't with the mother in law so it's totally understandable.
Completely agree about not seeing her in such a bad state, same goes for my grandad - my dad wouldn't let anyone see him as he didn't want our last memories of him being basically just a shell.
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zico
1:17 Wed Sep 8
Re: National Insurance increase
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Come On You Irons 12:27 Wed Sep 8
The problem with euthanasia as I've said before is who makes that decision?
As much as it pains me to say it in a corner of my mind I wish mum would pass peacefully in her sleep to end this living nightmare she is in as she continuously sobs knowing and saying that her brain doesn't work any more and there is absolutely nothing you can say for any comfort to her. And yet there are days that she is bright and her face lights up because of her grandson visiting and playing the wonderful little fool to give her a bit of joy. So yes the person she was is long gone, but the odd word or phrase and a look here and there shows that a bit of her is still in there somewhere.
So as much as she has very little quality of life and despite our awful personal thoughts that she will be soon out of mental pain who makes that cut off point decision to give her a pill or an injection to end it all? Even without capacity who makes that decision for her? If someone did what if a cure is found a year down the line? Unlikely of course but who knows? How do we really know what a person with dementia wants because their feelings, thoughts and comments differ from minute to minute. I thought my dad had it rough when he died on the golf course of a heart attack but looking back that's the way to go.
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Moncurs Putting Iron
1:15 Wed Sep 8
Re: National Insurance increase
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Block 1:06 Wed Sep 8
Re: National Insurance increase
Mate. I am a horrible person because the loss of the dog hit me much harder.
The old girl was such a force of nature when on form, I (and Mrs Moncs) were thankful we didn't get to see the 5 stone, yellowed and unresponsive person she had become.
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Hermit Road
1:13 Wed Sep 8
Re: National Insurance increase
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"State euthanasia is the way forward, but it is far too brutal for the majority to contemplate."
Or maybe, and this is a radical idea in the truest sense of the word, we could look at what we lost when society decimated the family unit, and regain some of that by looking after family members when they need it rather than farming them out to the state or private care homes.
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Moncurs Putting Iron
1:12 Wed Sep 8
Re: National Insurance increase
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I personally would like to set cognitive levels that could be tested by two independant qualified individuals and if I fell below those levels I could be euthanised with quiet dignity.
The thought of Existing as a husk and being a drain on my families emotional and fiscal resources and those of the state really does depress me.
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Block
1:06 Wed Sep 8
Re: National Insurance increase
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That must have been so hard to take, MPI mate.
:(
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Moncurs Putting Iron
1:03 Wed Sep 8
Re: National Insurance increase
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She was extremely lucky in that she had family working there.
She was extremely unlucky as many were because this all occurred during lockdown and her wider family used to visit between them most days, but of course could not.
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Block
12:56 Wed Sep 8
Re: National Insurance increase
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Assume she was in a mix of care and residential home mate?
Some members of staff are absolutely brilliant, sadly there's some who are horrible care free insensitive cunts which unfortunately my grandad encountered.
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Moncurs Putting Iron
12:47 Wed Sep 8
Re: National Insurance increase
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Block 12:16 Wed Sep 8
True.
Mrs Moncs Nan went from being on the social committee to being 'Down the corridor' and bed ridden in three months.
Both need entirely different care and interaction but both are done under the same roof, by the same staff.
I take my hat off to anyone who earns their money genuniely caring for the elderly. Got the Company wanting to keep costs down the wages aren't great and you are faced with hobbs choices every day.
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Block
12:43 Wed Sep 8
Re: National Insurance increase
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Moncurs Putting Iron 12:38 Wed Sep 8
Re: National Insurance increase
ROFLCOPTER
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Moncurs Putting Iron
12:40 Wed Sep 8
Re: National Insurance increase
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Has anyone looked into whether corpses are an efficient and green fuel source?
Multi-functional solution.
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Moncurs Putting Iron
12:38 Wed Sep 8
Re: National Insurance increase
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Block,
Have a heart. It might have been before he got his superb grades and his superb job.
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